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Margo 03/19/2010 8:48:00 AM
Wow, this is quite a conversation. I don't understand the comment where it states that lakeside has only two rules, yes those two are probably the most important. You aren't allowed to play games in the library, or do any of the things stated in the comment. The only thing is that students deliberately break those rules without understanding that the more rules you break the more you will want to break later. I think that Lakeside is an amazing school as i do go to it but i believe that there should be a bit more rules keeping the school standing strong. I don't think this article is correct it puts Lakeside in a very dark cloud. For some wierd reason all the cases in other schools aren't documented as well and the articles are always written to light the school. Now though, people know that Lakeside is a higly acknowledged and will do anything to bring it down such as the way it was stated in this article. This was pretty much the only bad thing that has ever happened to Lakeside relating to drugs but comparet to any other school and this one has alot less crime and expulsion. I think that whoever wrote this article should look over their facts, and understand that it isn't Lakeside's fault it's the students who did this.
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Expelled Student 11/20/2009 6:59:00 AM
I was one of the expelled students, implicated only by the admissions of other students interrogated. I am not going to comment on the actions of other students, or who is "justified". There are always multiple sides to a story, and unfortunately, sometimes more than one is right. I have spent the last six weeks organizing my thoughts about what happened, and the simple truth is this:
-We got expelled as a direct result of our actions.
-The school purposefully includes legal "grey area" in their Expectations, and beyond that, every student attends at the whim of the Head. As a result, the school's decisions don't have to be justified.
-The motives of the school in expelling students are hard to discern. The decision in my case was made in an hour. I admitted to their accusations forthright, because I have a commitment to my personal sense of honor. The school purposefully dealt with me as quietly as possible for two reasons; to avoid unrest in the community and to avoid the process that might have reduced my punishment.
-Expulsion doesn't cure the hand, it simply cuts it off. If the school truly believed that my drug habit was so severe they needed to expel me, I feel it would have been a sign of respect and compassion for them to refer me to a drug treatment center. They did not do this, and since my expulsion, have not communicated with me regarding my explosively rearranged life or my plans for attending colleges.
-The crimes I committed certainly mandated punishment, but at an institution as intellectually blessed as Lakeside, I would have expected a solution that fostered more personal growth and discovery. I have learned my lesson IN SPITE of the actions taken by Lakeside, not as a result of them.
-I have maintained contact with close friends and teachers (some of whom are writers of my college recommendation letters) who all believe that the actions taken against me were not congruent with a school that works hard to give their students the best.
It is important to keep a realistic view of things. I am personally aware of people who still attend Lakeside and regularly commit offenses more severe than those that got me expelled. I am also aware that the administration knows many if not all of these names. It seems to me that their clearcut and upstanding moral directive would persuade them to take action against these students, but for the sake of the students I am glad the administration hasn't. I hope contributors to this comment forum will withhold their personal assaults on character, as everyone has made mistakes before, and in terms of the scale of life, these events are minor.
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Lakeside Student 11/10/2009 9:10:00 PM
Earl Grey, I suggest you cut the crap. You have skipped class, VoR is right. I have even covered for you back when we used to be friends.
You know the charges against you are overwhelmingly true, so stop pretending you have done nothing wrong.
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Amused Bystander 11/09/2009 9:09:00 AM
Here's the lesson kiddies. When the Lakeside Administration corners you for six hours and implies that "Honesty" is valued above all things, without advising you of the accusation, your best bet is to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
.
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Former Judicial Committee Memb 10/28/2009 12:26:00 AM
I would like to clarify that the administration did follow their procedure. Having been a member of the Judicial Committee at Lakeside, I know not every case comes before the Judicial Committee and that the family handbook does not constitute some sort of agreement with the students. It simply mentions the Judicial Committee, but it doesn't not mean that every single student who does something wrong gets to go to the Judicial Committee. For instance if you're late to class multiple times you get Lakeside's equivilant of detention, you don't get to go to see the Judicial Committee....
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eff you combo 10/27/2009 6:22:00 AM
In the mid-80s, I tested into Lakeside academically, but I f*cked up royally during the visit/interview (my parents told me to just be myself). I told my Lakeside interviewer that I didn�t want to be a student there, and yeah, my mom is still pissed off about it (it�s 2009!). No problem though, I�m sure I would have been thrown out anyway. Probably for something alcohol related.
Back to the article�this whole fiasco must be really difficult for the students and their families. I�d be angry if I were in their shoes. There really is no excuse for the administration failing to follow its own procedures. The students deserved a hearing. No doubt.
Pretty sure it�s true that Lakeside makes it easier to get an Ivy education, and an Ivy education can mos def open at least a few doors (no Ivy education here, but I�ve watched Ivy friends absolutely kill it). But even if these students aren�t thinking Ivy, there is still a bright side -- they got to rub elbows with some of Seattle�s elite, and that means that they are hooked into some pretty impressive networks. So the expelled students may still reap some benefits from their time at Lakeside. Maybe not what they had in mind, but not insignificant.
We (Bill Simmons) might even go a step further�sure, before their expulsions, these kids had a winning combination of attributes, let�s call it the �Coasting to Success Combo� (talent, network, Ivy ed), but my friends, there is more than one route to greatness. The expelled students can still absolutely kill it with a different set of attributes, and two of these attributes are completely unavailable to their �non-expelled� peers. We�ll call this combination the �Eff You, Nobody Believes In Me Combo� (talent, network, an �eff you edge,� and a �nobody believes in me factor�). Plus, Ivy is not out of the question for the Eff Yous. Uh, yikes. And there is no way I would bet against them.
May sound corny, but I hope that the expelled students achieve everything they want to achieve in life. Really, really pulling for you guys. Big time.
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friend 10/25/2009 5:16:00 AM
earl grey, stop reading this bullshit and just move on with your life... please. it's not helpful to dwell on the past, especially when it includes an article this poorly investigated and a cast of commentators that apparently disgust you.
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VoR 10/23/2009 9:51:00 AM
Deny it all you want, I was sitting in class before it started. You walked in and asked if the teacher was here yet. The teacher was not here yet. You then said you didn't feel like comming to class that day. You walked out the door. When the teacher showed up one of your friends made an excuse that you weren't here that day. Right after class I saw you walking around.
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Mark Fefer 10/22/2009 10:28:00 PM
Alice, the reason for the difference in treatment is that the kids in the Pomeroy case a) are not the ones accused of wrongdoing and b) have already been named in public forums (courthouse hearings, etc.).
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earl grey 10/22/2009 8:18:00 PM
vOr, your own credibility just went out the window. check my class attendance in the office if you wish - i have yet to skip class. assembly? yes. leaving during frees? yes. cutting class? no. how would you "see" me cutting class unless you'd memorized my schedule and knew when i was supposed to be in class - and if you were in class with me then you would have to have been also outside the classroom to catch me wandering around campus or whatever you like. sophomore year i missed a lot of school because i was very ill, and saw doctors 2x a week, but uh... try again vOr.
SweatPEA... what's the difference between a sweetpea and a sweatpea? i'd guess mostly the smell. anyway. no need to be so rude. i was born in the CD before moving to boston, thank you. my family is pressing charges because we can't afford to pay this year at lakeside if i'm not going to be there, especially if i hope to attend college. lakeside may be chock full of elitists, but stop with the generalizations. most of the kids with the most money get in trouble and get off with a slap on the wrist. (trust fund babies coming to class drunk? tsk tsk. girls bringing bottles of alcohol to dances? give them some AA classes!)
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SweatPEA 10/22/2009 7:49:00 PM
I have been debating for a week if I should post this comment, but man, the amount of sanctimonious bs is unreal,
but expected.
My brother attended Lakeside, while I was banished to Exeter. Cruel experiment by my parents, but I have forgiven them.
Readers: When have you ever read such well written and
grammatically correct English outside of university?
It is rather comical, compared to the normal comments on Seattle Weekly. I was expecting more ad hominem attacks.
I like to add some perspective, since I went through the
"Ivy or Death" cycle. Yes, this is all about getting into
an Ivy League skool or the equivalent, such as Stanford, MIT, Caltech, etc. Then, into med school, law school, mba, or PhD. Aka potential earning power or keeping the family traditions and money. Seattle is no different than Boston
or NY.
1. Parents/kids: You have the right to remain SILENT.
You have the right to ask for an attorney to be present.
You have the right to ask for your PARENTS to be present.
Perhaps, couple days down in the CD could toughen your nipples from being hot boxed by couple school administrator goons. Education = +1. Common sense = 0.
Hardly, Abu Ghraib.
2. Not an elite school? How about a big cup of STFU?
Average Joe, huh? $30K + goodies + trips + fundraisers.
You know why you are there. I knew at 14 years old and 3000 miles away from home.
3. The NIMBY-like attitude is unreal. Not In My School
does this kind of stuff happen! Bullsh*t. When you have
raging hormones, access to money, and lots of free time,
man, sh*t happens. Like girls who "disappeared" for a while,
and re-appeared at Choate, Deerfield, or Andover because you
find out they were "misbehaving".
4. Final Word to Students: When you get to Harvard, Yale, or
God forbid, Dartmouth.;) Have a good time, go on those
road trips, milk your parents for as much money as possible,
and stay in school as long as possible. The real world
sucks, but you knew that already.
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alice 10/22/2009 11:00:00 AM
It's interesting Seattle Weekly isn't naming the Lakeside students because they are minors. What the *ell do you think Nicole Pomeroy and Taylor Pomeroy are, but you sure did print their full names in regard to your story on the front page. The only time I have heard Nicole and Taylor's names used was in court, not in the Seattle Times, nor the Seattle Post-Intelligencer BECAUSE THEY ARE MINORS. Why the difference in treatment?
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VoR 10/22/2009 7:36:00 AM
I won't pretend I know the details of your drug habit earl gray, but the claim that you've never cut class is a complete lie. I have seen you cut class. Your lack of honesty on this issue leads me to question your entire story.
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earl grey 10/21/2009 7:56:00 AM
There are some pretty disturbing allegations about my character on here. Be careful. I'm quite aware that a good number of rumors were and are circulating about me at Lakeside, and I find it ridiculous that gossip - if widely enough spread - can be substituted for facts. Lakeside's administration itself told me that while they had no actual proof against me, they considered tip-offs (inklings of fellow students) evidence enough. Regarding the laptop thefts, I had one of my friends go to the administration the same day I figured out who was responsible. In my official letter of expulsion, it reads that I was on campus under the influence of marijuana on two occasions, and also that Than Healy had a gut feeling I was not being totally honest. I was not found guilty of dealing drugs, and my connection to the laptop thefts was more or less nonexistant. It explicitly states those two facts, only mentioning them because those were the charges I was originally brought in for - the remaining 5 hours were spent trying to induce me to admit to any sort of violation of community expectations. Excuse me, vOr, I actually havent skipped a single Lakeside class. Nor have I been anything but a model student up until I made these two mistakes. My no means am I denying I did anything wrong, because that isn't even what the article is claiming, but merely that it was heavy handed, inconsistently harsh treatment for an offense numerous other Lakesiders have been caught redhanded in. I'm happy to be out of such a capricious and gossip ridden community, and am studying independently at UW.
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earl grey 10/21/2009 7:56:00 AM
There are some pretty disturbing allegations about my character on here. Be careful. I'm quite aware that a good number of rumors were and are circulating about me at Lakeside, and I find it ridiculous that gossip - if widely enough spread - can be substituted for facts. Lakeside's administration itself told me that while they had no actual proof against me, they considered tip-offs (inklings of fellow students) evidence enough. Regarding the laptop thefts, I had one of my friends go to the administration the same day I figured out who was responsible. In my official letter of expulsion, it reads that I was on campus under the influence of marijuana on two occasions, and also that Than Healy had a gut feeling I was not being totally honest. I was not found guilty of dealing drugs, and my connection to the laptop thefts was more or less nonexistant. It explicitly states those two facts, only mentioning them because those were the charges I was originally brought in for - the remaining 5 hours were spent trying to induce me to admit to any sort of violation of community expectations. Excuse me, vOr, I actually havent skipped a single Lakeside class. Nor have I been anything but a model student up until I made these two mistakes. My no means am I denying I did anything wrong, because that isn't even what the article is claiming, but merely that it was heavy handed, inconsistently harsh treatment for an offense numerous other Lakesiders have been caught redhanded in. I'm happy to be out of such a capricious and gossip ridden community, and am studying independently at UW.
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Parent 10/21/2009 6:44:00 AM
Ms. Shapiro,
How misguided and misinformed you are. How smug of you to criticize Lakeside's actions against illegal activity and present your biased opinion. Really?
Who am I? A Lakeside parent who is NOT a member of Seattle's "elite" community, but rather just a "regular Joe". Bottom line... the school did what it had to do. Those kids did do the things they were accused of doing - they know it, their parents know it, and above all, many students, also knew or had witnessed their actions.
I suggest you check your sources, before you embark on your next misguided anti-Lakeside rant.
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lakeside student 10/21/2009 6:28:00 AM
As a Lakeside student, I firmly believe that those of you who really don't know the full extent of the situation should not be making accusations they cannot confirm just because of what others have said. Similarly, those who do attend Lakeside should take a step back and think about the situation. While smoking pot may be a simple act, it is illegal, thus students should respect that. I do disagree with the way Lakeside went about the situation, but I do understand their reasoning. For Earl Grey, my brother came home mentioning that you had not only brought pot to school, but also more dangerous drugs. I will not reveal that to the internet, as it is not my place, but I do think you need to be honest. You are guilty of most of the charges they had against you and while I think their form of questioning or interrogation was severe, I think some form of punishment was needed.
Don't make accusations about Lakeside simply because of what someone else is saying: if you experience it, or hear it from an honest credible source, that is one thing. This article is clearly biased, and doesn't include all the accurate information pertaining to this specific incident. While I am angry that some of my fellow classmates were expelled in such a seemingly devious way, I cannot say I completely disagree with the expulsion overall.
Get you facts straight before you talk shit.
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Than Helium 10/21/2009 6:14:00 AM
As this article involves a situation I know too well about (lets just say I don't attend Lakeside anymore), I believe I should clarify a few things.
Lakeside expelled people for breaking rules. The students made a fault of judgement and paid the price dearly. At least two of the expulsions involved simple smoking and returning to campus. This is an expellable offense no doubt. HOWEVER, just as Lakeside Students have made a contract to follow in spirit and action the Community Expectations, so has the administration. They have notified parents that students must abide by certain rules. They also notified the parents of certain conventions at the school. The wording, as has already been mentioned above, specified that ""All incidents that potentially violate community expectations, excluding those having to do with sexual harassment and including those that may lead to expulsion, are considered by the Judicial Committee. (Family Handbook, 26. 2009)". There was no "case by case" clause in this statement before or during my infraction. This is a blatant infraction of the Family Handbook and is a striking example of ex post facto law. If there are "unwritten" rules that truly govern how students are treated, the Lakeside Community deserves to know about them. It is a responsibility to hold with integrity the rules that Lakeside has stated, just as they urged students to speak with integrity about their actions. You can't comment on why we admitted things, because you weren't there in the room.
There were injustices in Lakeside's handling of these cases, but it doesn't undo any of the decisions and actions we decided to go through with. They fucked up. But we fucked up more.
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mar 10/21/2009 5:25:00 AM
VoR -- had they called the parents, the "charges" may have been lowered, and what is the harm in that? If the mere presence of a lawyer lowers the "charges" maybe the charges weren't all that in the first place; maybe it's a witch hunt.
I have an idea, VoR. Why don't you experience being called into your supervisor's or boss's office, with a beautiful view, not a cell, but not be allowed to leave, or call a spouse or friend, or attorney. Perhaps they'll let you have a trusted person in management spend some time with you. But, you can't leave until they say so. They "know something" about you (perhaps you're innocent of anything), and they'd rather hear it from you than from others, and that'd be easier on you. You'd like that, hey? That'd be OK? That's adequate due process? Or, after five or six hours, would you be just a little distressed? Perhaps you'd want to leave?
Many students at Lakeside have done things against community standards (don't be naive, VoR), and if they were sequestered in a room with a view, eventually they'd talk about these things. "Cutting class because they felt like it" Oh MY! Let's expel more promising young students...then we'll be left with the cookie cutter kids.
-- Mar.
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VoR 10/21/2009 2:54:00 AM
Hank, if you know anything about the students involved then you know they were not all upstanding citizens. I know for a fact that all of them have done things against the community expectations at some point during their time at Lakeside. Some of it was as mild as cutting class regularly because they felt like it. All the way to drugs and theft.
I don't believe that Lakeside acted inappropriatly at all. Had they called their parents it probably would have become much harder to get the truth out of them. I know of an occasion where once the parent found out that their child was accused of something, they brought in a lawyer and forced Lakeside to lower the charges. You make it sound like the Director's office is an interrogation room at the police station. If you've been to Lakeside you know it's a normal room with a big window and a view. If they had anxiety then it was because they knew they had broken the rules. If I were called into the Director's office for 6 hours I would maybe be confused but other than that I wouldn't worry about it. These people obviously had a guilty conscience because they knew that they had done things to get them expelled.
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Hank 10/21/2009 12:34:00 AM
ADDENDUM to what I said: A significant difference between Lakeside and the other private school I cited, essentially, is due process.
Due Process: the regular administration of the law, according to which no citizen may be denied his or her legal rights and all laws must conform to fundamental, accepted legal principles, as the right of the accused to confront his or her accusers, with adequate legal representation by an attorney of law.
So, Lakeside School's version of private school due process is: "we're going to do what suits us"? What they decide in advance? If my daughter's private school had questioned/sequestered her for six hours without calling me, I'd call that abusive, or imprisonment. It would have scared heck out of her.
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Hank 10/20/2009 11:43:00 PM
I happen to know a great deal about this situation at Lakeside. Casting aspersions upon the students expelled does not change certain pertinent and disturbing facts. Students were held in a room for six hours, alternately questioned and then left alone to think things over (anxiety inducing). In law enforcement, questioning a person over long periods of time has been known to lead to false confessions (no false confessions were given here). This fact makes this technique a borderline harsh interrogation technique. As it turned out, the expelled student that I know did not steal any laptops, nor did he sell drugs to students. He showed up high on campus on one known occasion. What a waste of potential that a fine, insightful and academically excellent student was dismissed for such a developmentally normative act!
A few years ago, similar incident (marijuana in a locker) at another well known private Seattle school lead, initially, to a series of disciplinary hearings. Expulsion was seriously considered, but after hearing out the student, the parents, people who know and support the student, and a therapist enlisted by the parents, the student was kept at the school. In this case the student's proposal to compensate the school and the community for her mistake was considered and accepted. Why? Because this school's mission/vision is to educate the whole person, to help its students make something of themselves...this other school recognized the opportunity they had to make an example of this student -- an example of someone who, having made a mistake, can make something of herself in its aftermath. How unfortunately short-sighted of Lakeside that they missed a similar opportunity, and shame on them for lacking the creatively to do anything more than mimic Law & Order and punish. Progressive? Forward thinking? Creative? Innovative? Expansive in their thinking?.....these are no longer words that can describe Lakeside School.
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Houston 10/20/2009 7:31:00 AM
I am a Lakeside Student, and could not disagree with the article more.
You make Lakeside sound as if it is a dark dungeon where they drag students to interrogate them, and take joy out of kicking them out of school. Sure, there are aspects that which I do not agree with the administration, but you use that to fuel your personal hate of the school. Examine all sides of the issue before you write an article directly attacking the school. Perhaps you should talk with the administration, and learn a bit more about what you are doing.
I would suggest getting an actual idea of the school, the students, and the administration before you write article after article belittling a great institution.
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John Doe 10/20/2009 1:32:00 AM
As a graduate of one of the area's secular Jewish Prep schools (it has "university" in the name), I just wanted to get something off my chest:
I used to egg the other prep school's in Seattle with my friends: Bush, Seattle Prep, I think we did S.A.A.S too. Never did Lakeside though, it was too freaking far.
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Former Judicial Committee Memb 10/18/2009 9:57:00 PM
If you know anything about Lakeside you'll know we don't have very many rules. You can play computer games in the library, you can play music wherever you want. In the community expectations that everyone signs at the begining of the year it states that Lakeside purposefully keeps rules at a minimum because it believes that it's students should be responsible for their actions and that having as few rules as possible leads to an atmosphere of trust. The two real rules Lakeside has are, no cheating (plagiarism), and no drugs or alcohol. They take both of these very seriously. In the interests of the students who were expelled, right to privacy I believe people are intentionally not giving out names or details about the students.
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ParkPlace 10/18/2009 9:15:00 PM
I have continued to read the various articles, apologists for the action and remain confused. Let's remember this was marijuana being used personally. Was it being sold for profit by each of the four, or being sold at all? Was it being used on campus or off by each of the four? Does the punishment fit the actions that they engaged in? Were any of these kids individuals that we would not want our children to share a classroom with or be guests at our home? What was the overall history of the four students at the school in terms of community participation, values and the like? Was equal treatment issued for unequal histories? I don't know any of these answers and nobody in this string has directly provided actual details. It certainly seems reasonable that the school be accountable for its behavior and provide enough information so that those who have concerns can have them confirmed or allayed. And whatever the details, I remain deeply concerned about the methods reportedly engaged in to extract information from these individuals. This was not an emergency. Thought, cooling off, careful deliberation by a team of people rather than immediate execution, and parental notification and involvement should have been part of any judicial process with such consequences on the lives of individuals.
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Former Judicial Committee Memb 10/18/2009 5:21:00 AM
Assuming you're telling the truth then I would agree that the administration is being inconsistant. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't punish one person just because someone else might be doing it as well. I guess one question I have is whether or not you think the administration believed you were innocent? I know of cases where the administration, acting on extra information that was not shared with the student, punished someone for being dishonest.
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bb 10/18/2009 4:22:00 AM
ojha
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Alum30 10/18/2009 12:51:00 AM
Earl Grey,
While I personally believe that marijuana use or experimentation is far from a capitol offense, it is important that the school setting never becomes a place of introduction to any form of substance abuse for the remaining 45% of students that you believe do not partake.
I read sincerity in your statements and urge you, if you are still so inclined and only if you feel that you can personally forgive the community for making what you believe to have been an ill-wrought snap judgement,
to write your statements of compliance with the social contract and deliver them as a petition to the head of school asking for reconsideration for reinstatement.
I truly wish you good luck and pray that your literary gifts can sway the hearts that matter!
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earl grey 10/17/2009 9:21:00 PM
Former Judicial Committee Representative: yes, there are consequences for actions. but life is not the stuff of absolutes. you cannot justify the death sentence for theft, even though theft is wrong and execution is a consequence. what students do on the weekends is not the business of the school, and i never "smoked dope" on campus. when i was expelled i was told - since they could not solidify any allegations against me - that i was just someone they didn't want in their community because they knew i smoked at all. about 65% of the school does as well, and the blatant inconsistency with which the administration is conducting this witchhunt shatters their credibility. using me as an example is truly cruel and unusual, and the zero tolerance policy is seen by psychologists as inappropriate and ineffective. you cannot go through life always accepting authority - power doesn't validate absolutely(*GASP*).
alum30:i was brought in for my alleged connections with the laptop thefts and cocaine dealing - yet they didn't tell me this and after questioning me on the subject found me to be innocent. since i was within their grasp, they decided to interrogate me about rumors that i smoked marijuana. i was truthful, yet unlike some of my fellow students, didn't drop names like hot potatoes. multiple other students have been caught red-handed, on campus, smoking and received a short suspension. this isn't logical. i was also not offered an impartial adult, my possessions confiscated without any search and seizure warrant, and my parents were not notified. when i told the truth i was told i was lying. one of the head administrators keeps marijuana in his dresser. i feel i neither breached the spirit nor letter. if anyone did, it was the administration.
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Alum30 10/17/2009 12:55:00 PM
T, my bad on the gender error! Of course there are no dumb Lakesiders and it is a misconception to assume that the school population is mostly rich kids as most families here struggle and sacrifice to ensure the best for their children and many, such as yourself have their tuition paid for them through earned scholarships... etc. Most detractors appear to have limited personal knowledge of the school and may envy it's resources, but the the curriculum is interesting and elaborately customized for breadth & efficiency, the extracurriculars are amazing and ultimately the social atmosphere is a diverse and interwoven fabric of friends and family.
The staff and administration prove their commitment every day, face to face, often for very long hours, with students and their parents. Their task is daunting and they have to balance rolls as educators, mentors, parents
and disciplinarians for the entire population and I am confident that they are very very attentive to doing the best they can, but be sure that beyond all else, just as your parents would, they will also do what they must to ensure the safety of the students and the continuity of the community.
Only the four of you and perhaps several administrators have sufficient knowledge of the breech to make a proper judgement, but the text of your own statement does not deny you were smoking dope, as you have apparently been accused. I must reiterate that adherance to the the social contract has everything to do with personal responsibility and integrity but absolutely nothing to do with "being caught." Ask yourself if you breeched the letter or spirit of the social contract; then proceed from there.
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Former Judicial Committee Memb 10/17/2009 12:03:00 PM
I used to attend Lakeside and served on the Lakeside Judicial Committee. I fully support the administration in their decision.
Park Place, this article is poorly written and biased. Actions have consequences, one of the students as has already been mentioned was expelled from the Middle School for theft, after trying to pin the blame on other students.
The Facts:
While the Judicial Committee does see have a hearing for most of the cases that come up, the JC does not hear all cases, especially very serious or very minor ones. If a student is late to class this doesn't qualify for a JC hearing. If a student is caught dealing drugs or doing drugs on campus the administration may or may not choose to send it to the JC. I would like to clarify that Lakeside's administration always reserves the right to overturn any decision reached by the JC, although that does not happen very often. About 7 times in the last 6 years (this is out of the 15-25+ cases the committee hears each year).
I do not have any problems with the way the students were treated. Lakeside's approach to investigating is perfectly I used to attend Lakeside and served on the Lakeside Judicial Committee.
Park Place, this article is poorly written and biased. Actions have consequences, one of the students as has already been mentioned was expelled from the Middle School for theft, after trying to pin the blame on other students.
The Facts:
While the Judicial Committee does see have a hearing for most of the cases that come up, the JC does not hear all cases, especially very serious or very minor ones. If a student is late to class this doesn't qualify for a JC hearing. If a student is caught dealing drugs or doing drugs on campus the administration may or may not choose to send it to the JC. I would like to clarify that Lakeside's administration always reserves the right to overturn any decision reached by the JC, although that does not happen very often. About 7 times in the last 6 years (this is out of the 15-25+ cases the committee hears each year).
I do not have any problems with the way the students were treated. Lakeside's approach to investigating is perfectly resonable. Lakeside isn't going to tell the students what they were charged with, because then if they broke the rules in other ways then they will know not to admit to those things. Also the statement that they would be better off by telling the truth is fair. If it had been something milder in nature their honesty could easily have meant a lower sentence. I know the JC and the administration values honesty and are willing to adjust consequences based on it.
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ParkPlace 10/17/2009 11:14:00 AM
I am a former Lakeside parent of a graduated student and proud and appreciative of the school. Sad that I returned from out of town to find this article and the annual fundraising appeal in my mail on the same day. I am going to have trouble writing a check based upon the information that has been conveyed on this incident and the many comments posted. As best I understand (having no information from other sources), there was a theft of laptops, but subsequent questioning and expulsions were in response to marijuana use. It is not clear if such use was on or off campus. One can argue, as I would, that marijuana is neither more or less harmful than alcohol or tobacco. All are 'illegal' for minors under 18, which I assume at most of the expelled are, and of course weed is illegal for all but those having medical marijuana certification. So are many things illegal but not enforced. We have voted in Seattle to deemphasize enforcement of possession and personal use because voters know the truth about the drug. It is likely a matter of time before it is legal
What there appears to be no dispute about is that there was a breach of school policy by the lack of a hearing. And there was a breach of propriety by subjecting students to interrogation without access to any representation when the results under consideration included expulsion. These kids were betrayed by how they were treated in what appeared to be a witch hunt in spirit and substance. This absence of any sort of due process per their own rules, as well as civil society that Lakeside prides itself as being part of, is a fatal flaw in this situation and frankly unacceptable, above and beyond the expulsions. This was not a situation of a weapon being brought to school or any observed and current dangerous behavior. There was no urgent danger calling for a breach of the rules.
This is after all, smoking pot - something that I am reasonably confident the majority of Lakeside parents and faculty have done at some time in their lives, and that some do regularly at this time, all the while leading ethical and decent lives, teaching and raising good kids, and contributing to society. Even our president inhaled. Big deal!
The right thing to do now would be take a deep breath, turn the expulsions into suspensions, pending a separate hearing for each student, and depending upon specifics, reach an outcome proportionate to the crime, which might or might not include expelling them out of school! And anything said in the interrogations should be disregarded. It would also be appropriate for the school to share their view with the larger Lakeside community, while preserving the anonymity of those students involved. And Weekly, please edit out the name of the student who is mentioned in one of the earlier comments who was expelled in the past. If current students wish to identify themselves, that is their right, though not very smart. But it serves no purpose to name someone who was a minor and not charged with any crime, just because he happens to be from a prominent family.
This could have been anyone's kid based upon what I have read, and I would have been livid had mine been treated that way. There is a righteous puritanical and repressed streak that exists among a few on the faculty and/or administration that needs to be confronted and addressed. This is the same faculty that could not several years ago tolerate the discomfort of allowing a right of center author to speak on campus after some faculty felt wounded by the invitation of a person whose views they found disturbing. And the administration caved! How unbecoming a school that values discourse and nuance.
Current faculty, students, parents and Board members - speak up. Insist on facts and accountability from those who appear to shoot from the hip and hurt so many in the process, including the loss of reputation and good will that the school is risking. And parents of those expelled, don't accept platitudes when it comes to your kids and their being subjected to the sort of interrogation and breach of trust described.
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earl grey 10/17/2009 5:48:00 AM
excuse me, i'm a female. i was the only female expelled. i was neither caught nor was there any evidence against me. i was not participating in drug sales nor laptop thefts, and am not a dumb rich kid. in fact we weren't even the ones paying for my school. i also have a 3.7 and am involved in multiple extracurriculars, and don't consider myself dumb. alum30, please become more knowledgeable on the situation if you wish to assert anything about it. thanks!
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earl grey 10/17/2009 5:48:00 AM
excuse me, i'm a female. i was the only female expelled. i was neither caught nor was there any evidence against me. i was not participating in drug sales nor laptop thefts, and am not a dumb rich kid. in fact we weren't even the ones paying for my school. i also have a 3.7 and am involved in multiple extracurriculars, and don't consider myself dumb. alum30, please become more knowledgeable on the situation if you wish to assert anything about it. thanks!
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Student 10/17/2009 4:57:00 AM
Dear JC,
In response to your allegation that the statement in Family Handbook is a lie, Head of School Bernie Noe was quoted as saying that the Handbook needs to be revised, and the reason the students were not brought before the Judicial Committee was because the administration still has veto power, and in this case their highest priority was the safety of the student body.
Jim, you say that, "These rich kids aren't too bright." I feel the need to point out that I am a proud Lakesider who receives over 75% financial aid, as do many of my peers, and the majority of my fellow students are not only academically intelligent, but have a good deal of common sense. Don't judge us all - or even the students expelled - by your limited knowledge of the school. Thank you.
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JC 10/17/2009 3:12:00 AM
The point that I was trying to make in my previous post is that there is a line that appears in the Lakeside family handbook that goes as such
"All incidents that potentially violate community expectations, excluding those having to do with sexual
harassment and including those that may lead to expulsion, are considered by the Judicial Committee."
As has just been shown, this line is a 100% lie. Its is obvious that they will only refer cases to that committee when they know that it will agree with its decision.
I simply don't like it when the adminstration lies to the community and student body so blatantly. They need to revise that handbook, so it more accurately reflects the truth.
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lakeside parent 10/16/2009 10:43:00 PM
(No, my kid(s) had nothing to do with this whole deal.)
If pot was legal, and regulated as cigarettes are, would these kids have been expelled?
Would they have been expelled if they'd had a cigarette after lunch (off campus) on a school day? A beer with lunch?
Now every reasonable person knows that pot should be legal and regulated like cigarettes or alcohol. (Or cigarettes and alcohol--*far* more dangerous and damaging than pot--should be illegal.) There's no sane argument to the contrary.
But the adult Lakeside community, which generally likes to see itself fondly as open-minded, liberal, and progressive (compared to, say, upland Arkansas)--stands firmly here with the Know Nothings and the Nancy Reagan Just-Say-Noers.
Of course there were alternatives to expulsion. They know that kids are "experimenting"--they say so. They also know that in 99% of cases it's doing no significant harm.
But acting like true christians would not have been nearly as emotionally satisfying as the feeling of moral superiority that comes along with Bush-style "zero tolerance" policies.
Welcome to the right wing of the Republican party, guys. You fit right in.
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Uh 10/16/2009 9:26:00 PM
Actually, the Judicial Committee is still in use... They just tried a case where a student was accused of smoking pot on campus during a dance, and the student was found innocent. Another example of the fact that the administration is not as unreasonable as is being claimed. If they were, clearly the student would have been expelled for "no reason".
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JC 10/16/2009 8:03:00 PM
So when is the Judicial Committee going to disolve? Lakeside is obviously no longer in need of their services. There is simply no point for it to exist anymore, since the Committee is, quite frankly, just for show.
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Jim 10/16/2009 7:59:00 PM
This is exactly why you don't talk. These "administrators" and "counselors" are not your best friends. And you don't even tell your best friends everything anyway. These rich kids aren't too bright.
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Alum30 10/16/2009 6:34:00 PM
amended:
I hear expelled student "Earl Grey" claim that he was never caught, rather than that he had not ever broken the social contract or the law. The spirit and ethos of the social contract is that if you violate this agreement with your peers, YOU should step away without being asked. You are personally responsible for your own actions and you are expected to maintain the highest standard of honesty and integrity as a prerequisite for attendance at Lakeside.
The Lakeside administration has a responsibility to protect the community, which trumps the student judiciary process. Students who placed faith in that stated process are understandably unhappy and now it is incumbent
upon the administration to actively renegotiate the future & value of the student's judiciary process.
The example of how a public school disciplines violations is not germane and Lakeside needs no one outside the community to impose a quantitative yardstick on how much criminality is acceptable -the answer is none! I understand that one of the expelled seniors had been previously expelled from the lower school for stealing from students and teachers, so perhaps the administration has more to answer for in having ever readmitted that student.
There are so many wonderful opportunities to keep Lakeside students busy enough in mind and body that theft and drug use/sales should never need to enter the picture.
If you truly were not involved and have not ever broken the social contract- stand up and say so! Otherwise, move on with your life and hopefully this will be valuable lesson about how much it can cost you to break your promises.
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Alum30 10/16/2009 12:11:00 PM
I hear expelled student "Earl Grey" claim that he was never caught, rather than that he had not ever broken the social contract or the law. The spirit and ethos of the social contract is that if you violate this agreement with your peers, You should step away with being asked.
The Lakeside administration has the responsibility to protect the community, which trumps the student judiciary process. Students who placed faith in that stated process are understandably unhappy and now it is incumbent
upon the administration to actively renegotiate the future & value of the student's judiciary process.
The example of how a public school disciplines violations is not germane and Lakeside needs no one outside the community to impose a quantitative yardstick on how much criminality is acceptable -the answer is none! I understand that one of the expelled seniors had been previously expelled from the lower school for stealing from students and teachers, so perhaps the administration has more to answer for in having ever readmitted that student.
There are so many wonderful opportunities to keep Lakeside students busy enough in mind and body that theft and drug use/sales should never need to enter the picture.
If you truly were not involved and have not ever broken the social contract- stand up and say so! Otherwise, move on with your life and hopefully this will be valuable lesson about how much it can cost you to break your promises.
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earl grey 10/16/2009 7:51:00 AM
As one of the four expelled Lakesiders, I'm rather offended that Nina Shapiro is accused of digging up dirt. When I saw this article I was quite pleased that what really happened was publicized. I was expelled with no evidence, only on the basis of rumors, and now the school is telling other students I implicated them when I did not - most likely trying to sever my ties with Lakesiders? My friends who were expelled were promised they would not be expelled if they dropped names and thats how I was implicated - yet they were expelled anyway. I was held for 6 hours, my parents were not contacted, I didn't have an impartial adult in the room, wasn't fed, all of my stuff confiscated and I was searched. When I told the truth I was told that I was screwing myself over because I wasn't being honest. I qualify that as mild coercion... Also, in the agreement we signed, it reads that any case potentially resulting in expulsion MUST go before the judicial committee. Appeals are guaranteed. I was given neither of these rights. Other students have been caught smoking (which I was never) and recieved a warning. The policy is three strikes. I've held a high GPA over the last 3 years, been active in the school community, was well liked by most teachers, and haven't gotten in trouble before. Please don't rip on this article if you actually just don't know what you're talking about or blindly worship authority. You shouldn't "fight the power" just to fight it, but you MUST fight it when its wrong.
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Warrented 10/16/2009 6:40:00 AM
As a Lakeside student, I agree with WAS and Valid above me. By attending a private school, we all agree to the community expectations and the fact that the school can do things on its own terms. If you are upset with the school, it is your decision to attend or not: I'm sure the hundreds of kids who didn't get in would love to take your spot.
The truth is, selling marijuana is a felony, and these kids are lucky Lakeside didn't turn this case over to the police. I think they are lucky just getting off with being expelled: there are far worse punishments they could have received.
Yeah,no, I agree that he is a great guy - however, that has nothing to do with whether or not he should have been expelled. It is not a question of character, it is a question of his actions.
And on the matter of how the cases were handled, we all know that if each case (and the 14 others, may I add) had gone to judicial, it would have taken much longer than the 6 hours everyone is complaining about. What's the use in spending a week when we know the judicial committee would have come to the exact same conclusions?
The real issue is that these kids were breaking school and state laws, and were punished accordingly. Why this is such a scandal is beyond me.
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Valid 10/16/2009 4:35:00 AM
To the kid above me, I'm sure that whatever you've heard from your friend is biased... he did get expelled after all. I agree with WAS. The administration isn't trying to be evil and get people expelled. If that was their goal, what would be the point of the school in the first place? The kids deserved to get into Lakeside based on merit, but they also deserved to get expelled based on stupid decisions that not only violated community expectations, but that were also illegal. I'm not saying that the process went exactly as it should have, because before the community expectations were recently amended to better reflect school policy, it did state that matter such as this would be dealt with by judicial committee. But many of the other details of the story, while possibly true to some extent, are very obviously being blown out of proportion by both the parents and The Weekly. I've seen all of Nina Shapiro's articles before; her bizarre vendetta against Lakeside is well documented. Comparing Lakeside to Abu Ghraib is not only absurd, but also insulting to people who have undergone actual torture... The kids were possibly treated unfairly (to an extent), but they were in no way harmed. They brought the expulsions upon themselves.
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yeah,no 10/16/2009 4:09:00 AM
Kathy, go to hell you live in New York so you probably have no clue what youre talking about, Sarah honestly SHUT UP YOURE SUCH A BITCH, you have no idea who the kid was, or the whole story, and no Mr. Karr's kid does not need to be more disciplined like you rudely imply, I am friends with him and he is a great guy. stupid annoying parents need to stop gossiping and thinking they know everything when they have no clue and are just as much to blame as any kids. youre pathetic, all of you. shoot me if i ever turn out like you
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Irrate parent 10/15/2009 8:49:00 PM
Let's get real, shall we. Nina did your child get denied from Lakeside? Ms. Ayrault did Lakeside not treat you are your father (former Head of School) during your respective tenures? Nina in your quest to do a story you miss the important picture. Would you want your children in a school where other students are selling drugs and they aren't punished for it? I don't and I applaud the school in it's ability to eradicate it from the campus and set an example for other students.
Lastly, Why not ask the parent who is considering filing a lawsuit, which wouldn't his first time in a court of law, about why two of his children were involved in crimes and expelled from their respective schools. The man's children reside in privilege. His former spouse runs a multi-million dollar company and his kids have been given every opportunity as a result of said privilege. This isn't about money this is about he and his ex-wife's inability to manage his children's non-academic interests. Unfortunately, that was left to the school and the school handled it deftly.
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Student 10/15/2009 8:43:00 PM
The issue really isn't that kids were expelled, it's the methods that were used to do it. The administration told the kids not to lie, then took what the kids said and expelled them for it. They continually prompt "integrity," and say that to tell the truth will be better, but locking kids in a room for 6 hours seems a little excessive. Also, only two of the kids had "trusted adults" with them, and even these were people from the campus. Kids under 18 were not allowed to get help from their parents, as their phones were taken away. As Bernie says it, "We have the right," but for all these students sake, I hope this doesn't continue forever
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GNV 10/15/2009 11:35:00 AM
Oh look, the Seattle Weekly is selectively leaving out the facts of another Lakeside "scandal". What a surprise.
Look, I can do it too: "the Seattle Weekly exists to make money."
See? I'm pretty sure my story's more on the money than this one.
Anyway, keep it up Lakeside. I agree that if students sign a form that says they won't do drugs on campus or at school supervised events under penalty of expulsion, they should get expelled if they do drugs on campus or at school supervised events.
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Sarah 10/15/2009 10:55:00 AM
Karr needs to spend more time disciplining his child than pointing the finger of blame. Lakeside treats everyone the same regardless of money. A few years ago a senior child of a very prominent moneyed family (Fluke) was expelled for drug use as well. It's not a money issue.
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WAS 10/15/2009 10:43:00 AM
Also a Lakeside student, I will take the opposite stance my peer before me. I believe that the administration's actions were completely justified. The students were involved in illegal activities on the school's campus. I don't understand why everyone is getting so upset about what the administration did. If you break the law on campus and violate the community expectations (something all students must agree to and sign), I only see one fitting punishment and that is expulsion.
I have never really understood the whole "fight the man" attitude that is given towards the administration. They do so much for us as students that we never recognize. If they didn't do the excellent jobs that they do, we wouldn't be able to attend this amazing school that will prepare us to take on anything that we choose in life. So, when the administration decides to kick out four students who were dealing drugs on campus, they turn into an evil, corrupt, lying organization that has to be fought? It makes no sense whatsoever.
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than 10/15/2009 10:31:00 AM
Kathy, shut up.
The discussion here is not about the education or opportunities provided by Lakeside School, its about the unorthodox and unnecessary disciplinary actions taken by the administration of the school, which she has reported upon in its entity. Do not play the "only one side of the story" card, because, frankly, any other side of the story would be a manipulation of the truth.
I am a student at Lakeside and I understand the excellence of the institution, but at the same time the administration's procedure was way out of line and should be recognized for this. Those outside the community should not turn a blind eye to what happened at the school and it is defiantly within Ms. Shapiro's right to report on the subject.
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w hussey 10/15/2009 9:37:00 AM
while you are digging up dirt, you might also want to check into recent events at seattle prep with 2 kids expelled (one of whom has a parent suing the school) and 4 suspended for pot cookies or brownies that were brought to the school's homecoming dance. and how those punishments were handled.
you know, just making sure everyone gets exposed in the press. because i guess that's what's important here.
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Kat 10/15/2009 6:40:00 AM
Ms. Shapiro,
Perhaps you can help shed some light on a question that I have been asking myself for some time now. What is the origin of your bizarre obsession with Lakseside School? Do you really know so little about how organizations work as to believe that YOU (of all people) could possible know the whole story? And, given that you obviously do not, how can you dare to print the bitter garbage you have grown so accustomed to printing? Why not stop slandering one of the finest educational institutions on the west coast and begin write about some real injustices? You seem to believe yourself some sort of clever sleuth and there are plenty of worthy causes to be investigated, I assure you. The world could use someone of your... dedication.
Frankly, however, trying to bring Lakeside down is a pathetic ambition. You're really selling yourself short as a "journalist." If you truly insist on dedicating your "career" to Lakeside, why don't you write about the fact that, not only are laptops required for every student, but, Lakeside will, in fact, BUY a laptop for any student who is unable. Additionally, if said student does not have internet access in his or her home, Lakeside will pay for the installation as well as whatever monthly cost that ensues.
The objectives of this commitment that Lakeside makes to every one of its students are that, first, each student learn to use the most up-to-date technology in order to be well prepared to join his or her peers in college upon the completion of his or her tenure at the school and, second, that every student have equal access to this knowledge in order to be on as level a playing field as possible. This is perhaps the smallest of the ways that Lakeside is doing good for its students and the community but, since laptops were central to your most recent diatribe, you may find those particular facts relevant.
I wish you the best of luck finding a real cause!
Kathy
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Madison 10/15/2009 3:04:00 AM
Lakeside administrators and are LIARS! We know this from pass escapades; how do these people live with themselves? O�Ryan should have checked the history of this institution before taking a position where she is complicit in an attempt to cover up yet another scandal. All of those administrators should be ousted and replaced with dedicated educators that uphold the integrity of the school and the student body.