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Three Seattle Guys Want to Bar-Code Bullets

Second Amendment junkies hate that idea

Russ Ford might look like a longhaired, gun-control, hippie type. And in many ways, he is. Ford and his business partners, Steve Mace and John Knickerbocker, have patented a system that uses laser technology to imprint coding on ammunition with the hope of making it easier for cops to track it back to its shooter.

But Ford is not a gun-hating, anti-self-defense (as his opponents call him) activist; he has several guns that were passed down by his father, and once was an avid hunter. Unloading rounds into paper and clay pigeons at a range is still a favorite hobby. "An armed society is a polite society," Ford says, echoing rhetoric favored by Second Amendment devotees.

As a gun lover bent on creating a system for tracking ammunition, Ford is an anomaly in the firearm advocacy world. Says Alan Gottlieb, chairman of the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, "I'm sure every gun group in the state is opposed to it."

Ford's partner, Mace, says the idea for coding ammunition originated when the trio heard the story of a police shooting where two officers fired their weapons, but only one hit the suspect. In an investigation of the shooting, both officers were put on leave, since there wasn't an immediate way to determine which one of them had fired the bullet.

"We finally came up with, 'Well, why don't we just put a mark on a bullet to distinguish one from the other,'" Mace says.

Ford adds that they also figured bullets and casings were more likely to be left behind at a crime scene than a gun. With serialized ammunition, whether by the bullet or the box, it would be possible to at least find out who had originally purchased the rounds.

Mace and Ford spent four and a half years and about $200,000 securing the patent for their ammunition tracking system. But once that patent was in place and they had formed a company, the unambiguously named Ammunition Coding System, to market the product, they couldn't find a manufacturer willing to consider stamping their bullets. So they focused their efforts on convincing lawmakers that coded ammunition could be a crucial crime-solving tool.

To this end, Ammunition Coding hired Briahna Taylor, a lobbyist with Gordon, Thomas, Honeywell's Tacoma-based government affairs office. With Taylor's help, they began pushing for ammunition coding legislation on the state level. Taylor quickly launched a Web site, ammunitionaccountability.com, and bills were introduced in 12 states, including Washington.

On Feb. 8, Rep. Al O'Brien, D–Mountlake Terrace, introduced a bill in Olympia that would have required all pistol ammunition manufactured or sold in the state to be coded. Had it passed, the Department of Licensing would have been responsible for creating and maintaining a bullet database. But O'Brien's bill was a legislative long shot, as he introduced it after the cutoff to get a hearing in the Judiciary Committee. Hence, the bill is, for all intents and purposes, dead. (O'Brien did not respond to requests for comment.)

Despite the bill's failure, the fact that it was introduced at all has the Washington State Rifle and Pistol Association nervous. The registered nonprofit, organized under the umbrella of the National Rifle Association, is vehemently opposed to such ballistics coding. The day O'Brien introduced his bill, a post went up on the WSRPA Web site telling members that ballistics coding would increase the cost of ammunition and require a significant expansion of state bureaucracy to track ammunition. "Don't expect it to fade away," the site warns members.

For his part, Ford says the method for marking ammunition is fairly cheap—pennies per bullet. He also points out that marking and tracking individual products is hardly a new phenomenon. Most beer cans, he notes, have a stamp showing where and when they originated, making it possible to track if there's a problem with the contents on the consumer end.

Yet Gottlieb says the problem with ammunition coding is not just the potential increased cost of ammunition or the creation of a database to track sales, but the fact that a company could get a patent and then pursue legislation that, if enacted, would essentially give that company a monopoly on the implementation of that legislation.

Ford counters that the patent system is designed to give inventors a monopoly for a time to offset the costs involved in inventing their product. "Some protection is afforded inventors everywhere that have come up with ideas," he says.

Mace, Ford, and Knickerbocker met while working for the Seattle-based real estate mogul Martin Selig. Discovering a mutual entrepreneurial spirit, they began tinkering with ideas, and in 1998, Ford and Knickerbocker applied for a patent on small knobs that could be easily affixed to outdoor ledges and benches to prevent skateboarders from using them for tricks and jumps. The patent came through in 2001, and they formed Ravensforge, a company now owned by Ford's sister-in-law that distributes the underrated banes of a skater's existence.

Ford still puts in time at Ravensforge, working in shipping and receiving. The company sells between 20,000 and 40,000 units a year, he says. When it's nice out, more skateboarders are apt to tear up edges, and business spikes. "There's nobody that prays for less rain than me," Ford says with a laugh. Capital from Ravensforge, as well as investments from family and friends, provided the initial cash infusion used to conceive the ammunition coding system.

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  • Aaron M. Winstead 09/09/2010 5:13:00 AM

    When did you come up with this good idea, and what is it called?

  • dwight 04/27/2010 5:20:00 AM

    just freaking leave the ammo alone !!!!!!!! stupid people always trying to stir up trouble

  • Angelo G Cravotta 05/23/2009 7:13:00 PM

    I don't own a gun but any Legislation toward guns will encourage me to buy one. Stop breaking down America piece by piece with Federal, State and local laws and ordinances!!!.......... All Freedoms are important regardless. Stop! Stop! Stop1

  • Ron 05/08/2009 3:44:00 PM

    Sadly, this was produced by " one of our own". This is just another example of how taxpaying citizens are losing their rights & privledges every day to government in one form or another. Technology already exists to trace ammo. thru ballistics. How much ammo I have is none of anybodys business anymore than how much clean underware I have in my chest of drawers.

  • Skywalker 04/20/2009 10:35:00 PM

    This is just a back door way of taking the honest man's gun (or use of) from him. Criminals don't care, that's a given. What are these people thinking?? And where is the NRA at? I am a current member, we all need to be shuting this lie down. American Freedoms lies in the balance! Wake Up America!!!!

  • Ernie 04/18/2009 4:57:00 AM

    What good does coding bullets do when someone can steal ammo from a home and later use it in a crime. The original buyer has now the legal system all over him or her for something they didn't do. This just seems like three guys that invested money in a dream and now are pushing it on law abiding citizens so they don't take a loss. It is not foolproof and can cause more trouble than good, just my opinion.

  • Duwayne Peters 03/17/2009 10:24:00 AM

    To me this is just a way for a few guys to make allot of money and causing allot more problems for millions of gun owners our Goverment. In this time of people losing thier homes, jobs etc these knuckleheads come up with a way to make folks pay more to buy a product that they may someday need to save thier families life. Also whats to stop a crook or killer from filing off this code or using stolen ammo to cause a crime. try again fellas. Hey maybe just law enforcement can code THIER ammo so they know who shot who? D.P. ID.

  • RYAN 02/04/2009 5:53:00 AM

    YOU GUYS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO OBAMA'S SOCIALISTIC COMMUNIST SOCIETY--THAT HE WANTS. TOTALLY UN-AMERICAN. OF COURSE THIS WON'T GO TO THE VOTING BOOTH.

  • RYAN 02/04/2009 5:52:00 AM

    YOU GUYS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO OBAMA'S SOCIALISTIC COMMUNIST SOCIETY--THAT HE WANTS. TOTALLY UN-AMERICAN. OF COURSE THIS WON'T GO TO THE VOTING BOOTH.

  • Rick 02/04/2009 5:23:00 AM

    Mandantory Death Penalty For Those Convicted Of Premeditated,1st Degree Murder and all other violent crimes involving the loss of life of another person of will cut the murder rate 75% or more,send the other illegal aliens back across the border and save the nations taxpayers enough money to fix the economy too. But I guess that would not be politically correct!

  • Lance Kramer 01/30/2009 11:23:00 AM

    Totally unconstitutional. All this is an article trying to make it sound "nice" that these jerks are trying to get rid of the 2nd amendment. Sorry folk. You lost in the supreme court and you're not going to get away with this little stunt either. It's not the gun owners breaking the laws. It's what's in the White House and Congress right now.

  • Darrell 01/29/2009 5:39:00 AM

    What is scary is they actually got some idiots in state government to introduce this legislation. Stupid idea for stupid reasons; but hey, isn't that what all anti gun laws are? Stupid ideas by stupid people. A retired State Police Officer and the strongest supporter of the second amendment.

  • Darrell 01/29/2009 5:38:00 AM

    What is scary is they actually got some idiots in state government to introduce this legislation. Stupid idea for stupid reasons; but hey, isn't that what all anti gun laws are? Stupid ideas by stupid people. A retired State Police Officer and the strongest supporter of the second amendment.

  • Masked Intruder 01/28/2009 9:50:00 AM

    Ha ha ha ha!!! I'll be sure to go STEAL a few boxes of legitimately purchased ammo before shooting someone... After all, has anyone EVER heard about a house being broken into and guns or ammo being stolen? Of course not!

  • Duane 01/26/2009 5:39:00 PM

    This bill will not fly in Arizona. Too many hunters. The Government is already in my life too much already. This bill needs to fail

  • Matt 01/22/2009 4:03:00 PM

    This is by far the most useless system I have ever seen in my life. If you Anti gun, Obama voting hippies think that the CRIMINALS, the people who do wrong with guns and going to stop, and say " Oh they passed a need law I need to turn in all My old ammo" YOU ARE WRONG. They are going to keep their untraceable ammo, use it and all you accomplish is charging law abiding citizens more money. How about putting less restriction on the matter, focus your attention on the failing economy, you will find that its proven when you have less strict gun laws you have less crime. Thats my rant for the UNINFORMED out there Law Enforcement Student and U.S. army soldier

  • Lisa 01/19/2009 5:47:00 AM

    Great Idea - get an idea, come up with the way to implement it and when nobody wants it, get the government to shove it down everyone's throat. Yeah, thats the way to do business in America.

  • jim 01/14/2009 7:44:00 PM

    Screw this. Bad idea. Gun control means using both hands.

  • Vince 01/06/2009 8:22:00 AM

    Just another form of gun control.

  • Denise Forbes 12/29/2008 9:18:00 PM

    Related to your article on Ammunition Accountability: Yes, I am a "Second Amendment junkie" as well as a "Constitution of the United States junkie" & a Bill of Rights junkie". From an X-citizen of the State of Washington - for the reason of just this kind of liberal ignorance!

  • Greg 12/21/2008 12:31:00 AM

    Hey!!! I have a better idea. Lets punish the criminal that commits a crime with a firearm. We could have the inmate actually work a productive job while incarcerated, pay rent for the cell they live in(utilities could be included like apartment rent), buy their food in the cafeterias where they eat, pay for their clothes they wear, pay taxes on all purchases pay for their medical bills etc. The prisons could teach them jobs so they could be productive and earn points to pay for their purchases. This would possibly make them productive citizens when they get out and make the prisons self sufficient.OH NO WAIT!!! I don't know what I was thinking.. That would be cruel and unusual punishment making them behave like the taxpayers who work and pay taxes to support them.

  • elk 12/16/2008 10:37:00 PM

    good luck liberal scum.... just another attempt at our 2nd amendment rights...

  • George Orwell 12/14/2008 7:45:00 AM

    Couldn't cut it in a free market, so they go after the government mandated gravy eh? Realtors, messing up real estate, now messing up guns.

  • carrie may 12/13/2008 6:49:00 PM

    Thousands of spent shell casings laying around at public shooting ranges for anyone to pick up should be enough evidence for even most stupid people to understand this will not work. What a huge waste of the taxpayers money to have police officers investigating 400 law abiding citizens that practice at public ranges. Proof positive that the need for greed and control knows no bounds. Stupid.

  • Jerry Hassler 12/08/2008 6:01:00 PM

    If a coded casing is found at a crime scene, it will be enough for a civil suit to be filed, regardless of whether or not it can be linked to the shots fired. If I shoot someone with a 9mm and throw down cases of .357, .380, .45ACP, .38, .22 and so forth, will it confuse the issue or will it merely lead to everyone who bought one of the cases being named in the lawsuit or brought in by the police for questioning. A good lawyer will get any criminal off if cases of every caliber are all over the shooting site. Once again, we have a situation where our military and law enforcement will have to pay more tax dollars for the millions of rounds they fire each year. Guess this means we withdraw our military from everywhere since they can't afford the ammo to shoot the bad guys.

  • Ben Shaull 12/04/2008 10:21:00 PM

    This sounds great, so once the bullets are encoded, and you happened to need to defend yourself against and oppressive government �enforcer� they will be able to easily track the original purchaser (citizen) and execute him/her post haste. This sounds like a great idea to assist the "New Civilian Military Force" Obama talked about forcing on citizens of the United States.

  • Gun Dealer 12/04/2008 6:18:00 PM

    http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/11/beware-of-ammunition-coding-system.html This guy said it better than I can! It's all about getting legislation passed to force an industry to use an expensive product it doesn't want.

  • JJ 12/02/2008 6:02:00 AM

    Appears to be a coniving capitalist ; all about the money as it always is. take the money away and see what is left.

  • Ken Hart 12/02/2008 5:26:00 AM

    The concept in and of itself is good. But as with anything else that the politicians, especially the Liberals, get their hands on it becomes yet another way to control our personal rights. This is yet another attempt to make Americans unable to protect themselves and enjoy the Freedoms afforded us by the Constitution. Yet another example of the Socialistic mentality of the Liberals who want us to be "dependant" on what they give us.

  • mec 11/27/2008 6:35:00 PM

    Use common reloading equipment to pull the bullet, remove the code and reassemble.

  • JB 11/18/2008 10:19:00 AM

    Just a thought...what about reloaded ammunition? Heck it'd be pretty cheap to just "roll your own" "untraceable bullets". Heck you could even use lead ones you cast yourself. There could be a whole black-market cottage industry there. Not to mention one could always pull and scrub one's "crime ammo". Somehow this seems like a bad plan (and thet's when I'm playing devil's advocate)...

  • ? 11/17/2008 6:29:00 AM

    GET A LIFE! GUN CONTROL DOESN'T STOP CRIMINALS!!!

  • ? 11/17/2008 6:29:00 AM

    GET A LIFE! GUN CONTROL DOESN'T STOP CRIMINALS!!!

  • ? 11/17/2008 6:29:00 AM

    GET A LIFE! GUN CONTROL DOESN'T STOP CRIMINALS!!!

  • ? 11/17/2008 6:28:00 AM

    GET A LIFE! GUN CONTROL DOESN'T STOP CRIMINALS!!!

  • ? 11/15/2008 3:51:00 AM

    You need a reality check? This is America!

  • Denton Newman 11/12/2008 9:14:00 PM

    "Mace and Ford spent four and a half years and about $200,000 securing the patent for their ammunition tracking system. But once that patent was in place and they had formed a company, the unambiguously named Ammunition Coding System, to market the product, they couldn't find a manufacturer willing to consider stamping their bullets. So they focused their efforts on convincing lawmakers that coded ammunition could be a crucial crime-solving tool." When they couldn't find someone to BUY the idea VOLUNTARILY they decide to have the govenment make it MANDATORY for industry to PURCHASE it. That's just wrong.

  • Julian Harper 07/13/2008 10:45:00 PM

    Wait a minute, if this is not about gun control than what is it about? Certainly nobody in the legislature is so uneducated to think this will stop crime. Are they really that out of touch with reality? Don't they realize that criminals, by their very nature, do not follow laws. What do they expect a criminal to change now and follow these laws? How insane are the inventors and legislator's to think this would solve crime? No, don't answer these questions, the simple fact of proposing them give this writer all the answers needed. So other questions arise. When did any gun control law prevent a criminal from following the law? None! How many governments have used these laws to forcibly restrict or forcibly take away citizens firearms? Always! What are the true motives of the so-called pro-gun inventors? Greed, greed, and of course more greed. Oh, and we can add criminalizing law abiding citizens, and taking away their rights, confiscating their firearms, and not allowing their usage prior to confiscation. This law is yet another backdoor attempt to take away firearms, forcibly register, and make criminals out of law abiding citizens. What is even more horrifying is it is done under the guise of crime control and worse yet by a single company for their financial gain. How can people allow this to happen? One thought this was a society based on personal responsibility, and rational laws. Yet this proposal comes from a private company, who cannot sell their product on the open market, who now wants to force people to buy it using the government as their hammer. Sounds like many anti-anything groups. If you can't get one way use the government to force it upon people under some falsified guise of safety, help, compassion, or whatever. Translation, they are smart and you are an idiot needing immediate help. As I understand the article no manufacturer wanted the technology. What were there reasons for this? One of could be the cost of serialization. A few cents on a box of .22 caliber ammunition adds a huge cost to each box. The average cost is about $1.29 for fifty rounds. Do the math add five cents royalties to each round sold. The final cost per box is $6.45 per box. Than add administrative fees from government to run a program, maybe one dollar or so, than the cost incurred by the retailer to comply, another dollar, and don't forget the manufacturer has costs too say one more dollar. Suddenly this $1.29 box of.22 caliber ammunition is $9.45 per box. A huge increase for the most popular round in the country. This can be done on many other popular, but more expensive calipers, and the costs increase even more. This effectively prevents shooting. Good idea from a gun control viewpoint. Cannot afford the ammunition, therefore cannot shoot, and therefore cannot defend yourself from the bad-guy. All while the bad-guy has purchased several hundred black market boxes of ammunition at one tenth the cost. You are not a target, and made a crimnal becuase you do not have the now solely legal ammunition. Another point is gun control, if the government knows what type of ammunition you purchase they have a very good idea of what kind of guns you have, and where to take them when they want. The developers claim this won't happen. Did they go to school and study history. Must have been sleeping that day. Every tyrannical regime started by confiscating any weapons from the population. This could be spears, knifes, slings, bows & arrows, muskets, and today firearms. The British Crown tried this idea, we rebeled, and now have the United States and 2nd ademendment in the Constitution. This type of legislation, and technology is a precursor to full confiscation of any firearms, and a direct violation of the Constitution and a God given right of self-defense. Finaly, what right does a private company have to force its product down peoples throats using the government as their tool. The best answers are greed, anti-gun mentality, greed, control of the population, greed, and eventual removal of all firearms from society. Sadly the inventor is not only a hypocrite, but a liar of the highest order. His justifications are an attempt to sell a very expensive unproven technology, and do it via the backdoor by legislating its use. His method is typical of groups today, if you cannot get your way sue or lobby the government to do it for. Remember these people think they know it all, and that you are an idiot requiring their immediate help.

  • Robert 04/28/2008 10:38:00 PM

    "Ford's response is that law-abiding gun owners wouldn't need to worry about ammunition tracking, since they wouldn't be committing gun-related crimes in the first place. "It isn't about safe and responsible firearm owners," he says. "We all realize that there are bigger issues than us involved in this." No, I'm worried about a potentially tyrannical government knowing what kind of and how much ammunition I have. Its NEVER about legal gun owners now is it? Never mind the fact that only legal gun owners would be the ones obeying this obviously intrusive law. The issue involved in this isn't really that big nor is it hard to figure out. If you keep violent criminals locked up in prison where they belong, violent gun crime will go down. Its not legal gun owners that are responsible for violent crime. It's the career criminals that get released early due to criminal coddling liberal judges and politicians that hold the belief that even the worst career criminal can be rehabilitated

  • Frank 04/04/2008 6:58:00 PM

    Hmm, the market has no use for our product... I know... let's get the government to force it on people! We'll say it's in their best interest. They'll have to accept it! We'll be rich!

  • bandofotters 03/06/2008 5:40:00 PM

    According to Mr. Ford, "Most beer cans have a stamp showing where and when they originated". What an absurd analogy unless Mr. Ford feels that the manufacturer will somehow clairvoyantly know who the ulitimate purchaser of each bullet is going to be. I know, I know, the analogy breaks down quickly, doesn't it? Aside from the $10 million start-up costs for each manufacturer there would be a multi-million dollar initiative in each state to somehow manage in a database that which can't be put on the bullet. Has anyone taken a look at Maryland's failed attempt at maintaining a bullet database and the millions of wasted tax dollars? The unintended consequence of substantially raising the price of ammunition is that people who can legitimately carry a firearm, including the police, will be less trained to use said firearm.

  • Michael 03/06/2008 6:54:00 AM

    We had the pleasure of hosting Mr. Ford last week in Maryland, one of the 11 states where ammo encoding bills are being proposed. He was the only person testifying in favor of the bill, which didn't impress the Judiciary Committee since he stands to make millions if this law is passed. He also failed to research the economic impacts, he says it would be a minimal cost impact to manufacturers, the ammo company reps estimated that they'd need to invest about $10 Million in capital expenditures just to start complying with this. Mr. Ford tried this out in his garage making a couple of thousand rounds of ammo - guess he forgot that some ammo manufacturers make 6 million rounds per day, 1800 rounds per minute for some calibers! Try to implement a unique ID on each bullet and shell casing and maintain those kind of production rates... This also would NOT help solve crimes, as there are too many breaks in the chain of custody for someone to testify in court beyond a reasonable doubt that the person who committed a crime could be linked to the crime by the ID number on the ammo. This bill was unanimously voted out of Committee in Maryland, one of the delegates accused Mr. Ford of trying to get rich at shooter's expense.

  • 41magisfine 03/06/2008 3:08:00 AM

    Ford's response is that law-abiding gun owners wouldn't need to worry about ammunition tracking, since they wouldn't be committing gun-related crimes in the first place. ================================= That is pure bull snot. Law abiding gun owners could be held accountable if ammunition they purchased wound up being used in a crime. If ammunition was stolen from them, if they happened to drop a few rounds while out on the firing range target practicing, their lives could be screwed forever. What about giving ammunition to a family member for their birthday or Christmas which is something I frequently do? Are you going to have to transfer that ammunition through a Federally licensed firearm dealer? That's absurd. Bottom line, not going to stop criminals. This might be a God send to the black market though!!!!

 

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