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Abuzz53 11/26/2011 5:08:00 PM
I was a personal friend of Loren Hammer, He did not work as a "one time" smoke jumper pilot but as a 3 year co-pilot at North Cascade Smokejumper Base. Before that he flew for 3 years in the right seat in a DC-7 dropping retardant on fires.He had many many hours flying in mountainous and hazardous conditions. He was a really great guy. Yes, the voice recordings can be very damaging, but they don't tell the whole story.
Loren had met and flown with Noel in Alaska the fall before they went to Afghan. Loren did NOT like Noel at all. Loren originally went to Afghanistan with Kevin McBride the captain that he had flown with at the smokejumper base, but when they got to Bagram, they were separated by Blackwater. I know by conversation with Loren that he did not like flying with Noel.
Loren may have had a wacky sense of humor and a potty mouth some times but he was a serious pilot, I had flown with him several times and known him for years. When he made comments about X wing fighter Start Wars man, I would imagine that he was being derisive towards Noel.
I read some of the transcript on a military site and I swear that the transcript that gets printed leaves out an important line. Right when Noel turns up the valley, Loren comments that he doesn't have his GPS and won't know where they are.{The plane didn't have one.} You don't ever see that on any of the published sites. They want to make it sound even worse than it is.
Loren did not get up that morning with a death wish. He had hopes and dreams just like everyone else. He had called me the night of Thanksgivng here and we had talked for an hour about plans in the spring to meet in New Zealand. He died the day after his 35th birthday. Today is the anniversary of his birthday.
My heart goes out to all of the families that lost loved ones on that plane.
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Reader Also 08/03/2008 3:26:00 AM
At the time of the accident I had known Noel for 6 years and had flown with him many times. I never found him to be a thrill seeker. I did find him to be a professional, courtious pilot. There is no question in my mind the crew, Noel in particular, was responsible for the crash. I do not feel Blackwater was reckless or even directly responsible for the accident. Could they be blamed indirectly for the accident, maybe. I have read comments that the crew was in experienced in Afghanistan. Well who would be at that time? The military, even now, sends crews out with little or no time in country. Not only scarcely little "in country" time, but very little time in type of aircraft. Both of these pilots had extensive time in type and terrain. Was it in the mountainous terrain of Afghanistan, no, but hundreds of hours in similar terrain. Pilots cannot always have experience in the "local" terrain, that is impossible.
The cockpit voice recorder is damning. But if the passengers of any aircraft with a crew, military and civilian alike, would hear what was said, all aircraft would be grounded. You can't put all the evidance of guilt on just the voice recorder, not just in this case but of any aircraft accident.
Blackwater met or exceeded the letter of the contract. Even now, Blackwater has tracking devices installed, that are not required by contract or FAA regulations and which was not available in 2004, that would immediately notify them of any problem. I do feel Blackwater is being given a bad rap for this. If this is to be kept from happening again, then change the conditions of the contract, hold the contracting officer at fault, or the issueing entity. See how fast things change at that time!
Please don't get me wrong Ms. McMahon, I do feel that you and your family, as well as the Miller and Grogan families deserve the truth about what happened. Noel was a good friend of mine, and sadly he was ultimately to blame for the deaths of five people. The blame for the crash lands solely on him as pilot in command. The blame for the path that led to the crash, I believe is in the way the contract was written. If the contract had not been written the way it was, then none of this could have happened.
I am very sorry for your loss and the loss of all the other families including those of the crew. It seems that everyone forgets the families of the flight crews are hurting just as bad. Knowing your son or daughter has caused the death of so many is also a terrible thing to deal with.
My thoughts and prayers go out for all the families involved and I hope changes are implimented to keep help prevent this sort of accident from happening again.
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Friendo 05/19/2008 8:20:00 AM
Wow. I flew with Noel English many times, and found him to be a competent and comprehensive pilot here in the States. I can also say (from knowing him personally) that he was a thrill seeker. I'm sure that's what led him over there. While he did make several fatal decisions that day, proper protocols and administrative oversight should have been in place to ensure safe flights, such as following a known route with a pilot experienced with the area. It's obvious there is direct fault on Noel, but there is also indirect fault on the company. I'm very sorry to hear my good friend was responsible for the deaths of others.
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Reader 11/20/2007 7:02:00 PM
There should be a more thorough investigation.
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Reader 11/17/2007 12:39:00 AM
After reading that transcript, you have to think that these guys ran out of brains or oxygen or both.
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Kelly McMahon Cook 11/16/2007 10:26:00 AM
I want to thank Old Pilot for his comments and reminding everyone what a pilot's job and responsibility is when they sit in the cockpit. I am aghast that MAJ Johnson does not believe Blackwater should be held accountable.
Mike was my younger brother. You tell his three sons that Blackwater is not responsible and explain to them that you do not need to plan your flight, file your plan and then do it. They will laugh at you because that is what their dad always taught them!! My dad is an aviator, my husband is an aviator, my brother was an aviator and Jeanette, Mike's widow, is an aviator. These pilots, sent over by Presidential Airways, screwed up -- and my brother would be here today if they had just done their job correctly. I waited two years for the NTSB to send the cockpit recording and when I read that no one even knew where they were or maybe they should get out a map....enough said.
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Old Pilot 11/15/2007 10:57:00 PM
For add'l info, here's the NTSB report http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0607.htm. Their conclusions are pretty damning wrt the piloting. Sounds to me like the mechanic was the only competent one in the cockpit - evidently the pilot and copilot never got the message re: old bold pilots. Joyriding in airplanes thru spectacular terrain is one of the joys of flying - but not when transporting passengers you're responsible for. And the responsibility for these passengers extends all the way to the CEO of Blackwater. Both the taxpayers and the military are getting a raw deal by contracting out activities to private industry that the military always performed prior to the arrival of Cheney-Bush, Inc. Safety and quality will always take a back seat to financial interests, especially by companies who are absolutely unregulated, who claim immunity and freedom of accountability vis-a-vis the Feres doctrine (how patently absurd!), and have powerful friends/business partners (i.e., Rumsfeld-Cheney) to back them up. Erik Prince has become fantastically wealthy in the last 6 years by money yanked from my wallet - I'm hoping this lawsuit is hugely successful.
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My2Cents 11/15/2007 3:16:00 AM
The military is protected legally from lawsuits but the question is, should a private company be protected too? So far, the court says no, which should have Blackwater and other companies rethinking their cowboy actions, which is a positive.
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Jeanette Gotz 11/15/2007 2:09:00 AM
Although I'm not for privatizing a miliary force, I believe Blackwater, in this case, is getting a bad rap. Mistakes were made, yes. I get it. However, when our own miliary pilots make mistakes and lose up to 9 crew members per crash, there is no civil lawsuits filed by the families involved and certainly no bad press on the pilot. Inexperience is everywhere over there in Iraq. Live, learn, provide more oversight. What choice is there? You either provide our military with the type of aircraft they need to get in and out of Afganistan themselves, or use the smaller Blackwater aircraft to accomplish the mission. Better yet, lets get EVERYONE the heck out of there. Security behinds at home.
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Ex-Army 11/14/2007 11:32:00 PM
It was Blackwater that decided to send these theater-inexperienced pilots off with that precious cargo, our troops. The Blackwater memo is the smoking gun.
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Rick A 11/14/2007 8:36:00 PM
They were headed to Farah when they crashed; Shindad was the final destination. The jump seat is mention in the military investigation report.
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Rich Johnson 11/14/2007 8:29:00 PM
LTC McMahon was my commander while in Afghanistan until his untimely death. I followed this tragedy until they discovered the plane and attended memorial services for all three.
To my knowledge, the flight destination was Shindand Afghanistan, not Farah. At that time, the plane was known to be overdue shortly after its projected arrival time. As soon as LTC McMahon's Cavalry Squadron realized that the plane was missing they began an aerial search around Shindand using their helicopters. Weather was bad and even after the CASA 212's emergency locating transmitter was detected, rescuers could not get to the scene until about 3 days later whereupon all were found to have perished.
I've been on a CASA 212 and don't recall seeing a "jump" seat like one in a C-130. However, it is a small plane and talking to the pilots would not be difficult. CASAs are not pressurized so that meant they needed to fly thru valleys as opposed to above them. After the crash, I believe the procedure in theater with CASAs was to take the longer low altitude routes.
Personnally I don't think Blackwater should be held accountable. The Army or Air Force should if anyone or any organization should. Blackwater performs a valuable service in theater and I think they are taking a bad rap. However, since they are carrying servicemembers, the Air Force should more carefully monitor their activities for safety reasons. I believe that do much more now than they did.
Rich Johnson
MAJ, Civil Affairs
352nd Civil Affairs Command
U.S. Army Reserve.
